<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Hi Quentin,</p>
<p>Thank you very much, this is an excellent example. Actually, we
will also prepare a checklist dataset, so this is really helpful
also for that exercise.</p>
<p>About interactions, I hope there is enough momentum to get it
going. The TDWG is a good opportunity. Another workshop on the
topic was the Globis-B workshop in Bari, last February, which
feedback might be important also. The GBIF Secretariat (Dmitry)
was also represented there, so he might have given feedback on how
the support of species interaction is important.</p>
<p>Kind regards, <br>
</p>
<p>Rui<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
On 06/28/2018 03:42 PM, Quentin Groom wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALr=EE1W016TVsySWHJwjeM51=7a1LP7ncVSVoG3HD0n9XdWFA@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">Hi <span class="" id=":6ir.1" tabindex="-1"
style="">Rui</span>,
<div>if you're interested we also published a checklist of rust
fungi recently using the resource relationship extension (<span
class="" id=":6ir.2" tabindex="-1" style="">https</span>://www.<span
class="" id=":6ir.3" tabindex="-1" style="">gbif</span>.org/<span
class="" id=":6ir.4" tabindex="-1" style="">dataset</span>/b043c480-dd36-4f4f-aa82-e188753ff09d).</div>
<div>I total agree with you about the importance of species
interactions. I'm glad <span class="" id=":6ir.6"
tabindex="-1" style="">GBIF</span> has some plans for this.</div>
<div>We have an interactions workshop at this year's <span
class="" id=":6ir.7" tabindex="-1" style="">TDWG</span>
meeting and I hope we will hear more about approaches to this
problem.</div>
<div>Quentin</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dr. Quentin Groom</div>
<div>(Botany and Information
Technology)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Botanic Garden Meise</div>
<div>Domein van Bouchout</div>
<div>B-1860 Meise</div>
<div>Belgium</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a
href="http://orcid.org/0000-0002-0596-5376"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">ORCID:
0000-0002-0596-5376</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Landline; +32 (0) 226 009
20 ext. 364</div>
<div>FAX: +32 (0) 226 009
45</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>E-mail: <a
href="mailto:quentin.groom@plantentuinmeise.be"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">quentin.groom@plantentuinmeise.be</a></div>
<div>Skype name: qgroom</div>
<div>Website: <a
href="http://www.botanicgarden.be"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.botanicgarden.be</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 28 June 2018 at 16:07, Rui Figueira
<span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:ruifigueira@isa.ulisboa.pt" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">ruifigueira@isa.ulisboa.pt</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Hi Tim,</p>
<p>I am glad to hear that species interactions will be
incorporated in the next data model and indexing. I
agree that it is not an easy task, but it is getting
more and more attention, so I would say that supporting
it is very important for GBIF in the future.</p>
<span class="">
<p>Best regards,</p>
<p>Rui <br>
</p>
<pre class="m_-1356333163570509552moz-signature" cols="72">------------------
Rui Figueira
Coordenador do Nó Português do GBIF
<a class="m_-1356333163570509552moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ruifigueira@isa.ulisboa.pt" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ruifigueira@isa.ulisboa.pt</a>
Instituto Superior de Agronomia
Herbário
Tapada da Ajuda, 1349-017 Lisboa, Portugal
Tel. +351 213653165 | Fax. +351 213653195
<a class="m_-1356333163570509552moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.gbif.pt" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.gbif.pt</a>
<a class="m_-1356333163570509552moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.isa.ulisboa.pt" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.isa.ulisboa.pt</a></pre>
</span>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div class="m_-1356333163570509552moz-cite-prefix">On
06/28/2018 02:52 PM, Tim Robertson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="m_-1356333163570509552WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Thanks for raising this
Rui</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>This is just a note to
say that we are beginning to discuss starting
the design of a more expressive model for data
exchange, and indexing.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I am afraid that is not
a short term task though, but it will of
course cover interactions (species related and
evidence of interactions). As things progress,
your input would be very welcome, both on this
topic and the broader model.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Thanks,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Tim</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">IPT <a
class="m_-1356333163570509552moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:ipt-bounces@lists.gbif.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><ipt-bounces@lists.gbif.org></a>
on behalf of Rui Figueira <a
class="m_-1356333163570509552moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:ruifigueira@isa.ulisboa.pt"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><ruifigueira@isa.ulisboa.pt></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, 28 June 2018 at
15.45<br>
<b>To: </b>Markus Döring <a
class="m_-1356333163570509552moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:mdoering@gbif.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><mdoering@gbif.org></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a
class="m_-1356333163570509552moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:ipt@lists.gbif.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">"ipt@lists.gbif.org"</a>
<a
class="m_-1356333163570509552moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:ipt@lists.gbif.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><ipt@lists.gbif.org></a>,
helpdesk <a
class="m_-1356333163570509552moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:helpdesk@gbif.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><helpdesk@gbif.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [IPT] update of Darwin
Core Resource Relationship extension</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p>Hi Markus,</p>
<p>Thank you for your quick reply.</p>
<p>I understand the need to make the updated
extension "correct", accordingly to the "class".</p>
<p>However, the lack of implementation on GBIF in
ingesting related resources is a point of
concern.</p>
<p>It brings to my memory the XVII Congress of the
European Mycological Association (EMA), in 2015,
in Madeira. In that congress, Dmitry Schigel and
myself, we were invited to organise a symposium
on Biodiversity Informatics and Fungal Data, in
the end of the first day. But, in the opening
plenary session of the the conference, the
President of EMA, David Minter, stated with
emphasis that GBIF deliberately lacked support
to all mycological researcher community. His
main argument was that GBIF does not support
interactions between species, which is critical
data for many fungi species. Unfortunately, I
think we have to agree with him!</p>
<p>Using associatedTaxa is a limited solution if
we want to document the occurrence of the
interaction. And using the extension will create
problems when documenting interactions between
different biological groups, namely in the
metadata description.</p>
<p>I came across this problem precisely because I
am preparing and update of a dataset of fungi <a
href="https://www.gbif.org/dataset/651c0bec-bd78-4300-bbb0-5ed172fc82af"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.gbif.org/dataset/<wbr>651c0bec-bd78-4300-bbb0-<wbr>5ed172fc82af</a>,
where all fungi are associated with a plant
host. The use of the extension would allow us to
define, for example, the establishment means of
the host. But, if GBIF is not ingesting the
resource relationship, we are only left with the
option of using associatedTaxa and
occurrenceRemarks to document interactions,
which is not my preferred option.</p>
<p>Best regards,</p>
<p>Rui</p>
<pre>------------------</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Rui Figueira</pre>
<pre>Coordenador do Nó Português do GBIF</pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:ruifigueira@isa.ulisboa.pt" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ruifigueira@isa.ulisboa.pt</a></pre>
<pre>Instituto Superior de Agronomia</pre>
<pre>Herbário</pre>
<pre>Tapada da Ajuda, 1349-017 Lisboa, Portugal</pre>
<pre>Tel. +351 213653165 | Fax. +351 213653195</pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.gbif.pt" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.gbif.pt</a></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.isa.ulisboa.pt" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.isa.ulisboa.pt</a></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 06/28/2018 11:38 AM,
Markus Döring wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Rui, </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">the scientificName term
was dropped because it is not part of the
regular DwC relation "class":</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/index.htm#relindex"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/<wbr>index.htm#relindex</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The resource relation can
relate any kind of things and GBIF needs to
lookup the ids to find the scientificName of
the related resource in your case.
Unfortunately this is not implemented right
now, so by upgrading to the latest "correct"
version of the extension you will lose the
related scientific name on the GBIF
occurrence page. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">When I look at your
example the data is a little unexpected
though.</p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The relatedResourceID
is given as 701c94f1-16eb-4c1e-8449-<wbr>f3b046100187:</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://api.gbif.org/v1/occurrence/1585354292/verbatim"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://api.gbif.org/v1/<wbr>occurrence/1585354292/verbatim</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This should be the
occurrenceID of the occurrence record for
the plant it feeds on (<span>Pistacia
terebinthus)</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If I lookup this record
in your dataset it is missing:</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/search?dataset_key=85a3c886-3312-45c9-b040-4d7634653246&occurrence_id=701c94f1-16eb-4c1e-8449-f3b046100187&advanced=1"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.gbif.org/<wbr>occurrence/search?dataset_key=<wbr>85a3c886-3312-45c9-b040-<wbr>4d7634653246&occurrence_id=<wbr>701c94f1-16eb-4c1e-8449-<wbr>f3b046100187&advanced=1</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If I look at the
taxonomic overview of your dataset it is all
Arthropoda, so the related food plants all
seem to be excluded?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/taxonomy?dataset_key=85a3c886-3312-45c9-b040-4d7634653246&advanced=1"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.gbif.org/<wbr>occurrence/taxonomy?dataset_<wbr>key=85a3c886-3312-45c9-b040-<wbr>4d7634653246&advanced=1</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If you only want to
annotate an occurrence record with the plant
it feeds on you should not be using the
relations extension but instead look into
dwc:associatedTaxa: <a
href="http://rs.tdwg.org/dwc/terms/index.htm#associatedTaxa"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://rs.<wbr>tdwg.org/dwc/terms/index.htm#<wbr>associatedTaxa</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">With regards,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Markus</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 28. Jun 2018, at
12:14, Rui Figueira <<a
href="mailto:ruifigueira@isa.ulisboa.pt"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">ruifigueira@isa.ulisboa.pt</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi IPT list
members,<br>
<br>
Could anyone help me to understand
what are the implications of doing
an update of the Darwin Core
Resource Relationship extension,
that our IPT installation is asking
to update?<br>
<br>
I am particularly concerned with the
dataset <a
href="http://ipt.gbif.pt/ipt/resource?r=edp_tua_arthropoda_eia"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
http://ipt.gbif.pt/ipt/<wbr>resource?r=edp_tua_arthropoda_<wbr>eia</a>,
that is using this extension. The
table resourcerelationship.txt in
the dataset uses the term
scientificName to identify the name
of the tree where larva of
butterflies feed on. This is
reflected in the occurrence data at
<a href="http://gbif.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">gbif.org</a>,
for example, in this record: <a
href="https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/1585354292"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.gbif.org/<wbr>occurrence/1585354292</a>.<br>
<br>
I noticed that the update of the
extension dropped the term
scientificName. So, could anyone
guide me on the changes that I need
to do in the dataset, in order to be
able to update the extension and
have the same or equivalent
information about the relationship
in the record at <a
href="https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/1585354292?"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.gbif.org/<wbr>occurrence/1585354292?</a><br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Rui<br>
<br>
-- <br>
------------------<br>
<br>
Rui Figueira<br>
Coordenador do Nó Português do GBIF<br>
<a
href="mailto:ruifigueira@isa.ulisboa.pt"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">ruifigueira@isa.ulisboa.pt</a><br>
Instituto Superior de Agronomia<br>
Herbário<br>
Tapada da Ajuda, 1349-017 Lisboa,
Portugal<br>
Tel. +351 213653165 | Fax. +351
213653195<br>
<a href="http://www.gbif.pt"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.gbif.pt</a><br>
<a href="http://www.isa.ulisboa.pt"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.isa.ulisboa.pt</a><br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
IPT mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:IPT@lists.gbif.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">IPT@lists.gbif.org</a><br>
<a
href="https://lists.gbif.org/mailman/listinfo/ipt"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.gbif.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/ipt</a></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
IPT mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:IPT@lists.gbif.org" moz-do-not-send="true">IPT@lists.gbif.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.gbif.org/mailman/listinfo/ipt"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.gbif.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/ipt</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>